Lawyer-Hot or Hot-Hot?

October 20, 2008 by  

I should’ve known better. I should’ve just left the pimping to the professionals and none of this would’ve happened. But it did. It started this past weekend when I was having brunch at City Bakery with my newly single, ex-BigLaw friend, Max, and I suggested a perfect set-up for him: She’s a fourth-year in my firm, cute, funny, just transferred in from the Paris office and doesn’t know anyone. Max’s first question, of course:

“Is she hot?”

“Well, I guess. Yeah. Definitely. She’s adorable.”

“What, like, a 7? Or are we talking 8, 9?”

Gross. “I don’t know, Max. A ‘7,’ maybe? Whatever. She’s hot.”

He cocked an eyebrow. “Yeah, but is she lawyer-hot or hot-hot?”

“I’m sorry?”

“Is she hot for a lawyer or hot for a, you know, real person?”

I wanted to smack him, but he had a good point. The girl—Paris girl—is indeed one of the more attractive people at the firm. But stick her on your average street corner in New York or L.A. on a Sunday afternoon and she probably wouldn’t turn as many heads as she does at the firm. If any. Smack-worthy or not, Max was right: The metric for hotness definitely changes the second you walk out the door of your firm.

So, of course, this got me wondering: How do I stack up—inside the firm and outside?  I mean, I’m a few light years away from being, say, a supermodel, but people don’t necessarily scream and run in the other direction when they see me walking down the street (or at least the hallways of my firm), either. What does that make me? A Lawyer “5”? “6”? A Real World “4”? How do you even quantify something inherently unquantifiable in the first place?

I asked Max what he thought my magic number would be, suggesting that I was maybe a Lawyer “4.”

He actually recoiled, grimacing, and looked at me as if I’d just suggested he chop off his penis and save it for dinner.

“Jesus Christ, you’re not that bad. Lawyer 4 is…is…” He shuddered. “Lawyer 4 is Steve Buscemi in drag.”

“Oh. OK, well thanks—“

“Give yourself at least a 5.”

Give myself at least a 5. Excellent. Thanks, Max. I’ll do that. And then I’ll give myself a bathtub and drown myself in it.  I mean, my God, are things that bad? I admit that working at the firm has drastically reduced my ability to care about my clothes, my looks and my, well, overall physical self, but am I now really just one step higher than…Steve Buscemi in a dress?

I said goodbye to Max, vowed never to set him up with any person ever again in my lifetime, and left City Bakery feeling more depressed than usual. But then it hit me: Max’s theory has an upside, doesn’t it? I work at a law firm, and, as Max so charmingly pointed out, we’re graded on a pretty steep curve once we get inside the building.  And I may not be at the very top of that curve, but I think (hope? pray?) I’m a respectable distance from the bottom, too. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but—at least in this one warped, sad little way—it looks like working at the firm has actually made me more attractive. I felt, if not better, then at least comforted. Until I got to work the next day.

Sitting on my desk as soon as I walked in was the just-delivered copy of the new first-year facebook—the one the firm hands out every Fall showcasing the pictures and vital stats of the newly arrived crop of first-year associates. Within a few hours of its hitting their desks, most of the firm’s veteran associates comb through it and note who the hottest prospects are, for work and for play. And I admit, I’m no different.

Just as I started flipping through the facebook, I noticed my buddy, Pete, standing in my doorway, laughing. “You beat me to it,” he said, waving his own copy of the facebook at me. He sat down and we did a page-through, scoping out potential targets. Asian guy from U. Chicago who clerked for the Fifth Circuit and likes opera and competitive chess. Whatever. Perky blonde girl who used to be in the Peace Corps before getting her JD/LLM at NYU. Pete was intrigued, but put off by the Peace Corps thing. Preppy-looking, cute-ish Stanford guy who used to be an i-banker before law school and enjoys cooking and international travel. Hmm, dog-eared that page. So far, though, there was no one out of the ordinary—no one we hadn’t already seen a hundred times over at the firm. At every firm. And then we saw page 32.

Staring back at us was the smiling face of a truly, truly gorgeous girl. An objectively, real-world, glossy-magazine hot girl. Not lawyer-hot. Hot-hot. Long wavy hair, creamy skin, perfect smile and huge, wide-set pool-blue eyes. And just in case that wasn’t enough, she’s double-Yale, worked at Vanity Fair for two years in between degrees, and is interested in “photography” and “exploration.” I’d never seen anyone like her at the firm, or hell, in a five-block radius of the firm.

“You’ve got to be kidding me,” Pete laughed, grabbing the book out of my hands to get a closer look. “Damn, she’s hot.”

“Yeah, for a lawyer,” I snorted, looking down at my shirt and realizing I had a small piece of bacon stuck on my left boob from this morning’s breakfast.

Pete raised his eyebrows and shot me a quick look. “For anybody.”

“I guess. It’s just a picture, though.”

“Yeah, a hot picture.” His eyes were actually starting to glaze over.

“It could be Photoshopped.” I grabbed the book back. “Look, see, she has absolutely no lines on her face at all—”

“Maybe she didn’t actually go to law school…?” Pete wondered aloud, not even remotely listening to me, trying to figure out how such a perfect creature could possibly be working at a law firm. As a lawyer.

Before I could offer an answer, he was already up and halfway out the door.

“What floor’s she on again?”


He smiled and ran his hands through his hair. “Got an errand on thirty-eight,” he laughed. And then he was gone.

So, there it is, friends. We’re screwed. Or rather, I’m screwed. I don’t even know this girl and I already want to push her down a stairwell. I thought things were bad at the firm before, but I least I took comfort in knowing I was swimming a little ahead of the curve. But when a girl like this shows up, the curve gets totally blown to hell. Bill Gates has shown up at the science fair and my gutsy little papier mâché rendering of a microchip is looking a little rough around the edges. Now, thanks to this new chick, this Goddess, Esq., I can’t even enjoy being a Lawyer “5.” Now, I have to get used to being relegated to a Lawyer “2.” That, or lateral to a different firm.

Preferably one with a Steve Buscemi fan club.


75 Responses to “Lawyer-Hot or Hot-Hot?”

  1. Eileen DeBonis on October 20th, 2008 5:19 am

    Don’t worry too much. This woman’s picture was probably air brushed, and if she’s really that hot, she will have a boyfriend that will put your friend “Max” to shame. After all, Max is unlikely to be any model himself.

    What I don’t get is why these male lawyers think they automatically have the god-given right to date only women who are 9 or 10 on the richter scale of women? Who made them so eligible? Legitimately, they are NOT more than 4 or 5 on the male scale. Should we women lawyers have to put up with this? Do snivveling male law associates have the right to look at us like we are horsemeat just because we are not candidates for the E! Channel?

    I think not. These lawyers should not be able to do so.

  2. Southern Lawyer on October 20th, 2008 7:48 am

    Yeah whatever, Eileen.

    BFW, this by far one of your best posts yet. Hilarious!

    ps. I doubt you are only one notch above Steve Buscemi in drag…the mere thought of that image will haunt me forever.

  3. Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 10:34 am

    “What I don’t get is why these male lawyers think they automatically have the god-given right to date only women who are 9 or 10 on the richter scale of women?”

    –> Because they can. It’s called a starting salary of $160,000.

  4. Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 11:45 am

    log scale?

  5. Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 12:32 pm

    Yea, but the women also make the same salary. Therefore it is stupid for the men to think they’re so different. Men are generally short little trolls with big impressions of themselves. Women may not be all Christie Brinkleys, but they are certainly more attractive than their male lawyer counterparts.

    Therefore, I agree with Eileen that men should not be licensed to treat women lawyers any differently than they would their own, given their level on the richter scale of 1-10.

    As an aside, these same men can’t cause an orgasmic earthquake above 3-4, which is also the size of their manhoods!

  6. Wilbur Moore on October 20th, 2008 3:01 pm

    That’s not nice. Men who have graduated law school may wish to pursue only a certain quality of female. Women may choose, as they like, too. The fact is that most men want a very attractive woman for a partner (sexual or lifetime). I think many women feel likewise, but just don’t articulate it the way men do. It’s unfair to brand the men as jerks just because they are vocal about it. And we don’t view unattractive women as “horsemeat”, even if we don’t want to date them.

    So go light on the men bashing, please, we are no different from most women on the site. Even the author would probably agree that many women think this same way.

  7. Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 3:02 pm

    “Yea, but the women also make the same salary. Therefore it is stupid for the men to think they’re so different. Men are generally short little trolls with big impressions of themselves. Women may not be all Christie Brinkleys, but they are certainly more attractive than their male lawyer counterparts.”

    But guess what — hot chicks outside the law find us and our salaries attractive and are willing to swap their dreams of dating Brad Pitt for great dinners, weekend trips and the occasional trinket in a little blue box. Most guys outside the law firm (and all of them inside) think you’re a ball-busting bitch with a butter face and wouldn’t been seen with you if you signed over your entire bonus. Don’t blame us for the double-standard — blame that hot chick who was mean to you in high school, because she’s still kicking your ass.

    As for the orgasm comment — you vastly overestimate (a) our desire to please and (b) our concern for your satisfaction. Get back to reviewing your documents.

  8. Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 3:40 pm

    “Asian guy from U. Chicago who clerked for the Fifth Circuit and likes opera and competitive chess. Whatever. ”
    I hope “Asian guy” isn’t used here as a proxy for “unattractive.”

  9. Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 4:04 pm
  10. Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 4:18 pm

    why would you assume “Asian guy” would possibly be used for a “proxy for ‘unattractive'”? The question itself is lamer than the reference.

  11. Texas lawyer on October 20th, 2008 5:33 pm

    One of the hottest girls I’ve ever seen, inside a firm or out, was a summer clerk at BigHouston firm in summer 2007. She was UTexas class of 2009. She had a boyfriend, but…yowsa. Anyone who works there probably knows who I mean.
    So, sometimes, though rarely, lawyers can be hot.

  12. Anon on October 20th, 2008 7:55 pm

    How about you post a pic of yourself and we’ll rate you on a scale of one-to-ten, either by the lawyer-hot or hot-hot metric? Just a thought…

  13. Anon on October 20th, 2008 10:01 pm

    Guys can be pickier because they make money, and chicks are after guys more for their money than their looks. A “5” male with a fat wallet can pull more ass than an “8” male with no wallet.

    If women weren’t such gold-digging whores, this wouldn’t be the case. But since it is, well-off men can indeed view women as horse meat.

  14. Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 10:10 pm

    In the end it’s a binary scale. You are a 1 or a 0.

  15. Jack on October 20th, 2008 10:22 pm

    “Anonymous on October 20th, 2008 12:32 pm Yea, but the women also make the same salary. Therefore it is stupid for the men to think they’re so different. Men are generally short little trolls with big impressions of themselves. Women may not be all Christie Brinkleys, but they are certainly more attractive than their male lawyer counterparts.

    Therefore, I agree with Eileen that men should not be licensed to treat women lawyers any differently than they would their own, given their level on the richter scale of 1-10.

    As an aside, these same men can’t cause an orgasmic earthquake above 3-4, which is also the size of their manhoods!”

    You must be on some serious crack, Anonymous 3:02 PM. Either that or you are so incredibly stupid so you do not understand basic human relations. Either way, I am about to enlighten you.

    (1) Yes, the women make the same salary. What you somehow fail to understand is that MEN don’t care about money in WOMEN. As a matter of fact, it’s a turnoff if anything. While men who make money are in demand, regardless of looks.

    (2) Women in law school are not more attractive than their male counterparts. I’m in law school. Maybe 20% of the women are at all attractive. As a straight man, I can’t judge other men’s looks, but I can say very few are what you describe. In addition, looks is the main quality women are judged by, moreso than for men, see (1).

    (3) Your unattractiveness and bitterness is transparent, demonstrated by the “attack the manhood” argument. The male lawyers you know don’t care about giving you an orgasm because you’re ugly. You couldn’t get a good job based on your mediocre looks and unfeminine, abrasive personality, so you went to law school. You don’t have orgasms because you’re a pump and dump; men choose to date the hotter, poorer, and more fun teachers, finance chicks, and undergrads.

  16. anonymous on October 21st, 2008 2:16 am

    What kind of cheap ass gives an “occasional trinket in a little blue box”? What kind of girl would want that? It’s about the red box, Cartier all the way, baby…

  17. Eileen DeBonis on October 21st, 2008 4:23 am

    Golly, you male lawyers are really defensive. It’s not the end of the world that you
    1)are shallow
    2) have small penises that don’t get the job done
    3) are generally unattractive (regardless of race/color/creed)
    4) seek to please only yourselves.

    We lwomen lawyers want REAL men who are not shallow and think of pleasing not only themselves but us. The fact of the matter is that we, having attained a certain level in life, look for men who can maintain that standard while we bear the weight of childbearing (and child rearing). That translates into staying away from shallow douchebags like you who only are interested in quick and easy sex. We don’t want to just have sex. We want real relationships with real men. You male legal turds simply don’t fit the bill, and I won’t roll over for some guy after paying for a meal, even if he gives me things in a blue or red box.

    Remember, we want relationships with real men; not dorky lawyers who think that their “fat wallet” is attractive to us.

  18. Anonymous on October 21st, 2008 7:59 am

    Eileen, you’re missing the point. We don’t care what you want and are not interested in giving it to you anyway. Why on earth would I want to deal with your “I want a real man who snuggles and listens to me and values me as a person” nonsense? I can turn on the View and get my daily dose of unattractive hags talking that kind of gibberish, which then frees me up to go back to making arrangements with young nubiles who don’t have chips on their shoulders (and are hot).

  19. Anonymous on October 21st, 2008 9:06 am

    This message is for Eileen, who I sympathize with, for while she apparently has done well for herself through law school…she has also pigeonholed herself in the dating world.

    You have actually managed to make yourself less attractive by becoming a 6-figure lawyer. You can seek this man of which you speak, but when it comes down to it, take some insight from your associates: obviously a man with power and money is not going to desire you. So the next time your “REAL” man snuggles up next to you, just realize if he had it his way, well, he would NOT be snuggling with you.

    And unfortunately for you, a beat bitch compounded with a big salary is only detrimental to your cause. Not to mention your glaring lack of understanding of the REAL world.

  20. no on October 21st, 2008 9:54 am

    Law firm guys are as gross and fugly as law school guys. Except they look like pudding under their suits. Girls, don’t let them get you all twisted up!! No one should jock these guys. Plus, have you ever seen them try to talk to a pretty girl?!?!! HAHAAHAHA

  21. Jack on October 21st, 2008 12:58 pm

    Eileen, you’re a used-up, 36-year-old lawyer with no husband, no kids, and no prospects. Almost all of the hot, nice women that guys want to marry are off the market by 30. A few professional ones get married in their early 30’s. You’re fucking 36. It’s over. No man with any potential at all will date or marry a 36-year-old woman, unless she’s a model. They’ll take an average 26-year-old anyday. Not only is she cuter and nicer, but she still has some good years ahead of her. Unfortunately for you Eileen, you probably never had good years to begin with, ergo the decision to go to law school. Men go to law school for the career and prestige to attract hot women. Women go to law school because they aren’t hot in the first place.

    “We women lawyers want REAL men who are not shallow and think of pleasing not only themselves but us.”

    God, how delusional are you? WOMEN LAWYERS ARE UGLY. We don’t care about pleasing you. And the little chance you did have to catch a man is LONG GONE. You are past your expiration date.

    The basic lack of understanding here is that females who go to law school worsen their dating prospects if anything. Males increase them. And the females are bitter about that, because men voluntarily choose teachers, nurses, finace girls, girls in advertising, etc. who are hot, fun, and feminine over masculine, horse-faced lawyer women.

  22. lawyer stud on October 21st, 2008 1:01 pm

    No – me and most of my friends have hot girlfriends/wives. All hotter than any lawyer bitches we know.

  23. 1L on October 21st, 2008 2:14 pm

    This is depressing. I’m a fairly attractive 21-year-old law student. I chose law school because I felt as if a “normal” 9-5 job wouldn’t offer enough reward for the effort (a teacher’s salary, seriously?). I date mostly blue-collar guys because they’re easygoing and fun to be around. When I do go out, professional-type guys turn on the charm until they find out I’m a law student. Then it’s, “You’re pretty hot, for a smart chick.” That kills it right there. Up ’til now, it didn’t occur to me that this might carry on into my professional career.

  24. Southern Lawyer on October 21st, 2008 2:46 pm

    Umm I think I have to disagree. I dig chicks who are smart and make a lot of money. I mean, unlike Eileen, its not a requirement. But, lets be honest…its not a turn off either.
    Hot is hardly goign to make up for stupid and broke for long. …well maybe for a day or too…but eventually that will just get old. Then again, thats just me…I dig girls in glasses who are well read and have excellent earning potential. After all, two lawyers’ slaraies are better than one.

    Then again thats really the point of the whole article…im a lawyer 5 who likes lawyers 5s….

    Either way, you people are way too serious about this shit. You all sound like a bunch of nuts who need to get laid and lay off the steriods…

  25. Thank you on October 21st, 2008 2:59 pm

    HERE HERE, southern lawyer. I’ll take a mate who I, oh i don’t know, actually love and respect, but who may not be a “9” over a “9” who I like pretty much only because he or she’s a “9.”

    Besides, the kind of people who rate other people’s looks on a 1-10 scale (and take it seriously) are the same kind of people for whom an 8, 9, 10 will inevitably become a 1, 2, 3 the second the first wrinkle or gray hair shows up.

  26. Eileen DeBonis on October 21st, 2008 3:42 pm

    I’ve read thru the comments. Most of the boys (not men) here are really mad (because they’re all blue-balled, I guess). And you know what, women like me have learned NOT to be your semen receptacles.

    You will have to jerk off yourselves, wimpy little boys, because youre also not getting any law student nookie!

  27. stellanova on October 21st, 2008 4:21 pm

    Wow, this is hilarious! I’m a professional in a different field where my male counterparts dominate the numbers. I hold myself well, have advanced my education nicely and do as I damned well please (and spend my money as I wish).

    However, being a student of humanity on the side, the complaints that I see are no different than in any other part of the male/female world. What women want … men don’t. At least till either side grows up. Maybe you guys should take a sabbatical – all that money and no time to enjoy it. What’s with that? Does anybody ever stand up and say NO?

    I can teach you ….

  28. Anon on October 21st, 2008 4:30 pm

    ***”The fact of the matter is that we, having attained a certain level in life, look for men who can maintain that standard while we bear the weight of childbearing (and child rearing).”***

    In other words, you’re a gold-digging whore who only values men for their “fat wallets.” After all, only men with fat wallets can support your high consumptive lifestyle while you pop out babies.

  29. Anonymous on October 21st, 2008 8:07 pm

    Look, We’re getting too down and dirty here. DeBonis is used to a certain lifestyle she’s attained by working hard in the profession. To the extent she wants to “pop out babies”, she should be able to with a father that won’t put them in the poorhouse.

    That is not being a gold digging whore, that’s being a sensible business woman. She says she’s willing, to bear the children and bring them up if her man will support them. Personally, that sounds fair, and if DeBonis can find such a man, great for her. Wish her luck, men, she is not asking any of you to fill that void in her life, but if there are eligible men, I am sure you can step forward and be considered.

  30. Xuan Lin on October 21st, 2008 8:19 pm

    As a person who studied behavioral psychology (MA 2003), I detect a great degree of hostility between a number of men, who resent well-educated women who want to speak their minds (and demand financial parity), and such women, who are in stiff competition with those male lawyers who so detest them on this website. This type of acculturative dissonance may well be brought about within the competitive atmosphere of the law school, where collaborative efforts are often shunned in favor of competitive secularization. In lay parlance, these men and women may never “click” on any level. So it’s not the war of the roses here; its the baring of inner feelings first germinated in the legal academic environment. As my husband would say, in his non-PhD parlance–what all of these people need is a good fuck! I think he may be right.

  31. Rick on October 21st, 2008 9:19 pm

    I’m a law student and a somewhat older one. My law school is full of at least decently attractive people, guys and girls. Sure, there are not many supermodels, but a decent amount of women I’d bang or even date lookswise.

    However, the more important issue is personality. I’ve been on law school message boards, and many, many women on them seem arrogant, trashy and downright mean. I don’t really see it at my school, but there is a decent amount of standoffish women. (Some are pretty friendly, however.) It’s pretty much standard knowledge that women in law school are fun to party with but less suitable for long-term relationships than pretty much every other profession. They tend to smoke and drink a lot, be extremely liberal politically (more likely to be slutty), and have other masculine traits.

    The women in this board seem truly pathetic. Women in their 30’s who attack male lawyers’ looks and masculinity? Can your bitterness be any more obvious? One of the reasons many male lawyers look past female lawyers is the female lawyers don’t recognize their opportunity. The women in law school and law firms are surrounded by guys with high status and earning potential. Male lawyers are pretty sought after, and they don’t want bitchy, demeaning women. Female law students/lawyers, even the relatively attractive ones, are below women in most other professions lookswise. And those men choose other women instead of lawyers because men don’t want a bitchy ballbuster for a girlfriend. Law women need to do a much better job of appreciating the position they are in and adjusting their personality accordingly. Many men like smart women, I do too. What we hate are arrogant, annoying women with negative, superficial attitudes, i.e. the women commenters here.

    “1L” – you seem cool. Stay that way, and don’t get arrogant and bitter like the others here. A real man appreciates your intelligence.

  32. Anonymous on October 22nd, 2008 4:04 am

    I think Rick makes some good points. Law women, shut your mouth and open your mouth. Dig, those wide mouths are, in fact, good for one thing, but it is not “oral “argument.

  33. Southern Lawyer on October 22nd, 2008 7:18 am

    UGH! I am so tired of this “Real Woman/Real Men” nonsense!! You know that’s what the really ugly and fat chicks write on their dating page…”I’m a REAL woman” its like somehow because you’re unattractive you are now more “real” than someone else…..
    “I’m looking for a “REAL man” i.e. one who will see past my overwhelming short-comings.

  34. Eileen DeBonis on October 22nd, 2008 7:21 am

    I like being a semen receptacle.

  35. Anonymous on October 22nd, 2008 7:56 am

    ?? “Eileen,” unless you’re being ironic or sarcastic, there’s no chance in hell you’re a real woman. And by “real woman” I mean an actual biological woman, not a fat chick.

  36. anonymous on October 22nd, 2008 8:58 am


  37. Wilbur Moore on October 22nd, 2008 9:19 am

    Xuan Lin has it nailed. There’s nothing bad that a heavy roll in the sack won’t cure, for either men or women. Eileen is too coarse, and is probably turning men off; and some of the men here probably haven’t had good sex in a while. So follow Xuan’s advice and go find someone to screw, whether or not a member of the bar.

  38. anonymous on October 22nd, 2008 9:26 am

    just because a chick is hot doesn’t mean she’s worth dating…also just because a guy has money doesn’t mean he’s worth dating…

    it helps with the initial attraction stage of the dating and that’s it…if s/he’s a nutjob, s/he won’t keep a relationship in tact for too long. also…if s/he’s “up” on the 38th floor…probably too busy to hold down a relationship. so don’t sweat it.

    if your friend is so shallow that is his only initial requirements for taking a chick out and spending lots of cash on her, then he’s stupid. he’s just wasting his money. at least girls who date guys for money get a fun night out to show for it.

  39. Xuan Lin on October 22nd, 2008 12:16 pm

    I see some difference in perspective between “dating” and 2 kinds of “mating”. One sometimes dates with the hope of finding a permanent relationship, and marriage and kids. One who just wants sex can be seen as merely being interested in a quick date and a quick “mate” (using contraceptives of course, as conception is NOT desired). Guys mostlylook for a date with the intent for the short-term “mate” (only for the nite and with contraception). Most women look to date for purpose of finding a real (i.e. long term) mate with whom they can make love without contraception and have children–the true definition of “mating”. Ellen wants the latter; the men here on this website want the former. As a result, there is friction.

  40. no on October 22nd, 2008 12:23 pm

    lawyer stud – i’m sure. i hope they like pudding

  41. Southern Lawyer on October 22nd, 2008 2:42 pm

    Are you for real, Xuan Lin??!?!?
    I feel like you just pulled your “psychology” out of the middle of a cosmo. or “woman’s day” magazine.

  42. nonny nonny hey on October 23rd, 2008 12:41 am

    for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son so that men and women might believe and have eternal life.

    more than y’all needing to get laid, y’all need to get some souls in ya.

    just pathetic.

  43. Xuan Lin on October 23rd, 2008 12:35 pm

    I have a masters in Psycholgy, but my thoughts are relatively basic. Men and women who are competitive often don’t get along when the competition is learned rather than the product of natural acculturation. I think the law school teaches lawyers to be competitive at all costs, and in the dating environment this can be counterproductive.

    In the normal male/female relationship, one is usually dominant. Having 2 lawyers dating is similar to having two positive magnets–they actually repel each other.

    So we face the dilemma of trying to match two highly educated professionals with similar interests. In many cases, it just won’t work, as illustrated on this website.

    Simple enough for you?

  44. Southern Lawyer on October 23rd, 2008 2:22 pm

    Xuan Lin, trust me, lack of simplicity was never the issue…

    You continue to make bold assertions that I do not believe to be true. I do not think Law School teaches one to be “competitive at all costs”. I do not think that “normal” relationships consist of one dominant partner and one submissive. (While I’m sure some do…but you are alluding that the man is usually dominate figure of the family…)
    Your psychological analysis of the human experience of “dating” leaves much to be desired. I think you categorically, pigeonhole men into only looking for sexual encounters while you do the same with women as looking for a suitable “mate”. Surely in your one year that you acquired a Masters degree you learned that you cannot take comments made in passing by some nuts jobs on a webpage and expand that to generally describe the act of “dating.”
    The only thing you learn from the comments on this webpage is that when identities are kept secret people will say some F-ed up shit.
    If you’re going to psychoanalyze a group of lawyers you should put your Dr. Phil book down. In lay parlance, just because you repeatedly use the pseudo-intellectual and somewhat pretentious/condescending terms like “acculturative dissonance” doesn’t mean you know a thing about the human psyche…nor is the term really applicable here.

  45. Xuan Lin on October 23rd, 2008 5:30 pm

    You assume falsely that the male must be dominant. Not true. There are plenty of successful relationships where the male is passive and the female dominant. Without making any political statement, witness Mrs. Palin and her husband and 5 children. There are thousands of non-famous examples in our own personal situations. Think about it. I merely observe that relationships work where there is give and take, and this works best where there is not regular friction / repulsion. I share the views of Jung that having multiple passive participants will not be as successful as the passive/dominant relationship. If you and your spouse were both passive, it is possible that neither of you would fight, but there would be little spark in your relationship, and events would become very predictable, if not boring. After a few years of such passiveness, many such relationships fail. So, if you’re looking for a successful relationship, try and find certain differences that are attractive to you and work to make them click for you. I wish you well on your search for your perfect match!

  46. poop on October 26th, 2008 1:14 pm

    In law school, a skank with 15 extra pounds is “desirable”. It’s very skewed towards the women, because the guys are indemand especially by non-law women, and these bitches are not only looks-disadvantaged, but personality disadvantaged compared to other women. We like femininity for relationships.

  47. Xuan Lin on October 26th, 2008 3:08 pm

    Then it is clear you must look outside the law firm environment for a compatible mate, or a serious relationship. Feminity is NOT what the female lawyer is trained to be. In fact, she must rely on her survival skills, and is often more in the nature of a bulldog. This is precisely what I was trying to get through earlier to the Southern Lawyer. If you find the females unacceptable (which many males so); you must go outside the law school / law firm environment. There are plenty of feminine women anxious to date, if not mate with lawyers. Good look to you in your pursuit of women who are eligible.

  48. Shadow Self on November 7th, 2008 4:34 pm

    Eileen’s comments above display a staggering display of naivete about the ways of men and dating.

    The reason, missy thing, that men think they have right to date hot women is…well…because they can.

    Let’s face it: for all the feminist ranting about it, women STILL flock to successful men. Money, a living, a man of means…call it what you will, but nothing makes a man’s stock go up more than a 12-inch…errr..wallet.

    Each of us brings multiple things to the table. As men and women become more and more successful, money and lifestyle are two of those ingredients. For men, this tends to mean that they can attract younger and hotter women as they get older.

    Whoops..there it is!

  49. Not-so-shallow Male on November 8th, 2008 5:34 pm

    Quite amusing post and blog generally, though some of the other posts leave me feeling sorry for the blogger even if they are exaggerated…

    If for the sake of argument men tend to be shallow about looks, they are honest about it (as other commenters have noted) and egalitarian about dating women whose job/income/education/etc. differ greatly from theirs so long as they look good.

    Given the content of this blog, to argue that women don’t care about looks, clothes (see the “shoes” post) and job and money and name (“Spyder”), etc. is spurious. More women seem to care about men having a “good” job etc. (either in addition to, or in lieu of, good looks). So in this context women are arguably even shallower than men. If you want to argue to the contrary, perhaps another blog would be more suitable…

  50. Alex Hump on November 9th, 2008 2:37 pm

    Yes, women lawyers look for men that have both $$$ as well as looks. That’s why they are often so disappointed. Men with money and looks do NOT find older shop worn lawyers attractive, even if they are a bit smarter than the average VJ. Also, men don’t care if the woman lawyer has a few extra bucks in the bank. They are viewed as high maintenance, and often very clingy as they start hearing their biological clock ticking.

    Men want excitement, a hot woman, and not the type of whiny beeotches we’ve seen on this website. Remember, all VJ’s eventually get that way; why should the successful men have to start out with these whiners on day 1?

  51. da bonis on November 10th, 2008 9:27 am

    Many people at tier 2 schools are hot

  52. Alex Hump on November 10th, 2008 4:55 pm

    I doubt it, as I define HOT by Hollywood (not Bollywood) standards. Unless the babe looks like Charlize Thereon, she is NOT hot.

  53. Petra Peckerlicker on November 13th, 2008 4:46 am

    Why cant we see or make comments to Legal Pervert Parts I and II? Didn’t anyone read these posts? Please to get this website up and running correctly. We enjoyed these 2 posts and would like to see the comments and make some ourselves. I personally do not believe taking it up the rear endis perverted if done with love.

  54. Alex Hump on November 13th, 2008 8:34 am

    Petra, do you want to date me? I’ve been looking for a girl like you for some time and am very loving.

  55. Petra Peckerlicker on November 17th, 2008 10:50 am

    Sorry Alex, I don’t think I would want to go out with a guy whose name is Hump. If we were ever to marry, I dread how the wedding announcement would read.

  56. Alex Hump on November 21st, 2008 2:00 pm

    Petra, I don’t have your e-mail address. I love your name, though and hope you live up to it if we ever do go out on a HOT date.

  57. Petra Peckerlicker on November 24th, 2008 4:01 am

    Very original, but I am not impressed. If I had a nickel for every guy who gave me that line, I could buy a diamond tiara. And no, I would not do that with you, especially since I have a pretty good idea where THAT has been (YUK). So you will have to go on holding your own, cuz that is not for me. Sorry, fella.

  58. Wimbleton's Top Prick on November 24th, 2008 4:20 pm

    I don’t believe any of this crap. Why cancel the ability to post on the second one? Is she afraid of something? I wonder if you pronounce Ian as ee-yan or eye-an. Wink wink.

  59. Wimbleton's Top Prick on November 24th, 2008 4:52 pm

    I think it is funny that with as little time as we have to ourselves we make posts to this lame @$$ site. If there is any irony that is it. We should all get a life.

  60. Petra Peckerlicker on November 25th, 2008 5:49 am

    Easy, Wimbleton, we like this site and a hairy ball-sack like you ought not comment like that about our heroes. You are likely nutless, anyway.

  61. Newbie on December 3rd, 2008 9:39 am

    For all the women out there, I have a question I would really like you to think about. When have you ever actually wanted to date Eileen’s real man? A nice guy that treats you well is passed up for a guy who’s not a complete jerk and can buy you whatever color box you prefer. That’s just the way it is.

    Oddly enough, I was the hot guy at the firm AND went out with the hot woman once. My downfall was being nice to her. As long as I ignored her she was interested.

  62. Keely on June 4th, 2009 8:39 pm

    I know this is an old post, but I just wanted to say that you lot are truly, truly pathetic. I am sixteen years old and have never met a person as immature as the average commenter on this post. Grow up, and thanks for convincing me not to go into law.

  63. Anonymous on March 21st, 2010 3:46 pm

    I’m so sick of these jealous women lawyers who hate on the pretty lawyers. We worked too. And it is funny how the men feel entitled. Delusional.

  64. P3 on March 22nd, 2010 6:30 am

    Of couse men are entitled to feel same. We spent 3 years after college for the degree. If we pursued a PhD, we would have the same degree in 3 or 4 years and all kinds of undergraduategirls for sex. We got none of that, so we want at least to get older more mature women for sex.

  65. P. Dreck on March 25th, 2010 7:28 am

    Men who have JDs should have their pick of women. Women should be happy to date(marry) a guy with a JD. They will have a shot at a good lifestyle even if the guy turns out to be an ass, and they can get a divorce and a good settlement.

  66. Juniper on September 8th, 2010 4:27 pm

    Ladies, ladies. Listen up. As the only female at my firm for ages, I ended up befriending a lot of these JD’s hot wives and girlfriends. I learned something fundamentally awesome that helped me let go of the angst.

    Every, single, one of these women were getting side action. Without fail. You honestly believe these women can forget all their needs of hotness for a wallet? Hell no! They LOVE their JD husbands and boyfriends. They get all the money they need to keep up their wardrobes, their boob jobs (nothing wrong with that), their shoes that helps them pull the hot guys while their husbands are hard at work.

    This is how I met my uber hot, non JD, husband. Hanging out with these ladies, even if I had to jump on the grenade, I still ended up with a hottie!

    Now, at company parties my husband joins the boys club and laughs as they talk shit about the women in the office. He knows that while they brag about how hot their women are, their women are over in the corner with me saying things like, “marrying for money is the toughest job out there”, “I only drink when I sleep with my husband. I stay sober for the pool boy”, and “Two things get me off. 180k a year and the 180 pounds of man flesh I picked up last night.” (All things I have heard from my friends).

    These hotties ARE happy to marry a JD! A guy with a ton of money, too ugly to get stolen away by any other woman, and too busy to catch them with any of their boy toys. Your absolute best bet is to befriend them. Hang out with them. Because near hot girls are hot guys, and I don’t mean the trolls you (we) work with every day. Don’t be jealous. The ladies are a lot of fun and know where to find hot guys that know how to please a woman.

  67. DH on September 9th, 2010 2:55 pm

    What a strange culture law is. Makes me glad to be a Ph.D. scientist.

  68. Dustin Aaron Sanchez on September 10th, 2010 6:04 pm

    my friend from El Paso, Texas says “city pretty…or desert pretty”

    lawyer pretty? sure….whatever

  69. Cypress on September 15th, 2010 11:59 am

    No matter how hot she is…

    Someone, somewhere, is tired of her shit.

  70. Michelle on October 8th, 2010 11:20 am

    Having worked in media/news and the corporate world for a few years before returning to law school, two things stood out about the guys there:

    1. they were all either securely married, laid-back, quiet, and tended to end up in non-firm businesses after graduation, OR

    2. they were quite impressed with themselves, still cripplingly insecure, rather unpolished, had unimpressive social skills, seemed pretty entitled, and were, with one or two exceptions, average-to-unattractive in looks.

    Most female lawyers, knowing the lay of the land, weren’t interested in these Category 2 guys because we are in it as well and know (a) you have a lot of student loan debt, (b) you aren’t making as much as you tell people you are, unless you’re at a big firm where we’ll never see you, and (c) you’re probably from a less-than-middle-class background, have a chip on your shoulder, a lot to prove, and a sense that a law degree entitled you to an investment banker lifestyle and supermodel women, despite being little more than a glorified service person. I’m a lawyer too, I have no illusions about what that entails.

    We also know that unless you love practicing, you’re likely to burn out, go off the rails, screw a few paralegals behind our backs, blow half of that partnership bonus on a drug/gambling/prostitute/bad investment habit, and give us herpes before you decide that you want to “get out” and “find yourself” and ditch us with your 2 demon-spawn to run off to Maui with your second paralegal wife and open a sea-side bar where you dispense malpractice-worthy legal advice on the side.

    On the other hand, some of the fugliest, meanest, most obnoxious guys in my graduating class had hot non-law girlfriends who were dating them because those girls thought “lawyer” = “rich someday” and were looking forward to a marriage where they didn’t have to raise kids, wash hubby’s skidmarked boxers AND hold down a third shirt at the corner convenience store to make ends meets. Can’t fault them there. They just don’t know. So they hung in and hung out and now show up at alumni events ticked about how their husband’s bosses aren’t paying more and looking unhappy (most of them – some did genuinely love their guys. Two of them.)

    I only date business guys, science guys, medical guys. They all come with their own issues, sure, but having seen the kitchen were lawyers are made, I can officially say that i will not be dining at that establishment ever in my life. And I think that’s a big part of the problem – a lawyer guy who feels he deserves worship from girls for his job title is going to have to look outside the legal field to find anyone ignorant enough to give it to him.

  71. Michelle on October 8th, 2010 11:24 am

    And I second Juniper’s post. That is how I met my SO. Dead on.

  72. Anonymous on October 10th, 2010 2:24 pm

    Michele, you really sound bitter; and/or like you need to get laid, bad.

  73. Miketheoldlawyer on September 1st, 2011 6:04 pm

    I’m fifty-something. I’m divorced, not rich and not beautiful, and I have no illusions about what men lawyers are all about. I am one. My advice to women lawyers is to stay the f away from male attorneys. We don’t make as much as people think.(You know that already.) We are more likely to burn out, develop addictions and become emotionally crippled, unavailable asses by the time we are in our fifties than men in other professions. The reason for this I believe is that most men go to law school because they think it is the path to riches, prestige and an interesting life. When they find out it is the grind it really is, they flake out. If you don’t like the law, helping people, listening to people, and being a human being, the law can be a life-long, soul sucking slog. There is little glory and the riches are not doled out evenly by any means. And the richest lawyers are often not the best attorneys, nor all that ethical, interesting or nice. Marry a nice doctor or an airline pilot. They work too much also, but the asshole factor in medicine and aviation seems a lot lower.

  74. Lisse on June 21st, 2014 2:49 pm

    @Keely You sound discerning. Seriously, don’t go into law. I’m fairly disgusted by these comments as well, especially the gross sexist essentialist b.s coming from some of the male attorneys here.

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